After you are profitable - Now what? - Page 2
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Thread: After you are profitable - Now what?

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    exactly my point... by taking enormous risk on some transactions to construct account... ridiculous risk for ridiculous return... of course you truly have to know what your doing
    ....talking of ridiculous, that's about the most ridiculous advice I have ever heard! The OP appears to have more sense than to do exactly what you're suggesting!

    You'd be better off visiting a casino if you want to gamble, the chances are likely better and at least you'll get a complimentary drink served by a popular waitress!

    Sheeeeesh....

  2. #12
    Great one, thanks for knowing, sometimes all you need is somebody who knows.

    Most of us would like to grow and not actually leave a mark, but.... To make this worth while, all of the effort, the late nights, the long hours....

    Thanks again brother in arms

    andrew


    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    Compounding isn't an option for the OP as he is using his monthly yields for living expenses, his investment is really decreasing in value due to inflation.

    When he can't raise additional trading funds from elsewhere then handling a fund appears the only other viable option. He doesn't have the money available to invest in resources which might create a better yield than he is already getting from his trading activities. The property market isn't actually a safe investment for the inexperienced property speculator right now, if it was...

  3. #13
    Increasing the risk is not the way too go imho, have to keep a cool head. By increasing the risk all you need is a lousy run and....the account goes bye bye... and most won't recover. Object of the game is not overly eliminate cash; to exchange another day




    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    exactly my point... by taking enormous risk on some trades to build account... ridiculous risk for ridiculous return... of course you REALLY have to know what your doing

  4. #14
    Of course 95-97 percent of people would disagree with me


    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    increasing the risk isn't the way too go imho, have to keep a cool head. By increasing the risk all you need is a lousy run and....the account goes bye bye... and many won't recover. Object of this game isn't too eliminate money; to exchange another day

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    .. .That's assuming he is consistent and that he has reasonable risk parameters, also it is assuming he does not get more client and funds to trade. This is obviously scaleable only up to this point where he starts having liquidity issues, but if/when he gets to this stage then I doubt it is going to become a'problem' he'll head having
    Thanks, that answers it

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    of course 95-97 Percent of people would disagree with me
    95-97Percent of Individuals who don't live in padded cells do You Really mean

  7. #17
    Hmmmm....ok because 95-97% pple fail in trading? I've had this conversation with another money managers, the gurus (self maintained or otherwise) before the oct 08 mkt crash. They said I was overly cautious not willing to risk more because they were hitting 20-40% profit and was averaging 10% or so.

    When the crash struck, I dropped abt 5% of my account along with the managed funds, they dropped 70-90%, so.... Got to exchange to live another day, tats what the greats are doing. IMHO no danger man.




    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    of course 95-97 % of people would disagree with me

  8. #18
    You show a valid point about managing funds. However, the idea of being a trader has been filthy rich and having the lifestyle to match. Working for others doesn't promote this. It infact pulls you down. You work for others, you have to consider what they desire and what you need and its a way to raise stress levels.

    Its fine for extra funding whilst little, I never stated Dont do it its just a step straight from the true aim.

    Like I mentioned earlier the only reason to trade for a firm is for extra funds. The men and women who trade at banks weren't trained as traders, they just worked their way up a ladder to get where they're. They do get alot, but have absolutely no liberty and are often alcoholics/drug addicts that enjoy nothing but those 2 things prostitutes. Of course there are exceptions, however, this isn't freedom. . Hitting a point where you're raking it in from your own account. Spending as you need, travelling the world and trading on radio out of hotspots, is the point at which you ought to be aiming for. That or enlarging in a company outside of FX for stable residual income.

    You won't find any major company that deals in just spot FX. Infact most firms are futures firms due to law and have place on the side whenever they could get a fantastic network and have the capital to go onto it.

    SpotFX is known as a scam market by most futures traders, but futures are under leveraged in comparison to FX that to make as much cash you've got to get 10x the funds. (estimate not considerable calculation here).

    If you've been trading openly on your own, and can move on up with that. Thats where you would like to be. Managing capital is fine, however, the world class traders aren't doing that. And probably never will. The fund managers I have met (I'm friends with a few) in place FX and stocks (the futures ones seem to be somewhat different) are 2nd class traders, also have 5 winning weeks a yr max. The best of this most of these is performing 30 percent a yr in wealth direction on fx. Its on big funds though, but he hedges himeslf with a delivery company and hedges that with land development and retail stores.

    I hope you see what I am saying. But I wouldn't ever dream about being a fund manager unless you failed to trade on your own but be able to turn a little profit.

    Allow me to put something into perspective. When I was younger, I had cash in a superfund with woolworths. I was employed as a produce manager for them during high school. My super fund last 8 weeks has been -42%. Sure it was on a comparatively aggressive option as I dont care for the 20k that's in it. However, for a professional fund manager to be -42percent is dispicable. I asked that man be fired. Unfortunately, he has a job. Since he's apparnently among the finest in the industry. The fact is, that the majority of individuals working for all these funds, are constructed to make small for your customer. They have salary bonus tasks, not comission. So they just need to hit targets equal to the ASX index/yr. And their incentive is 100-200percent of salary. ITs a cushy job sure, but the guys that are in it are finance grads who have jack fuck all idea about what they're doing.

    It's possible to imagine now the reputation that fund managers have in the corporate arena. I'll always hesitate to shake the hand of one, since they are snakes. They do not deserve the money that they have, and rely on the support desk in mcdonalds.

    Who would want that reputation?

    Sry again to rant.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    You show a legitimate point about managing capital. But the notion of being a trader has been filthy rich and with the lifestyle to match. This doesn't be promoted by working for others. It infact brings you back, down. You work for others, you need to consider what they want and everything you need and its a way to raise anxiety levels.
    Well I guess it depends on how profitable you are as a trader, in case you're only marginally profitable then it's definitely more difficult for you to entice customers to spend with you and the ones that you do be able to get would have to be kept happy.

    Nevertheless a finance manager who's good at his job and generates decent returns is most definitely not'working for others', actually he will be very discerning about who he chooses as a customer, as I said before - poor customers can make your life a misery. The very last thing a customer wants to do is upset the finance manager who's making him a good return on his investment!

    Let us weigh the pros and cons here....

    On the 1 hand a trader can trade his own money, take all the profit for himself and assume the risk. He has the freedom to trade and where he desires. Let us say he has a generous $1million in trading capital and yields 5 percent per month, $50k, and contains a highest risk to equity of 10 percent, $100k.

    On the other hand a trader can trade different peoples money, take a percentage of profits and have no exposure to risk. He also has the freedom to trade and where he desires. Let us say his finance is a conservative $5million and it yields the same 5 percent per month, $250k. His commission is 20%, $50k. None of his own cash is exposed to risk.

    I guess the most important thing is the way a finance manager sees himselfand more importantly how his customers see him. A consistently profitable trader who generates good returns can dictate his own terms, at the end of the day he's offering a valuable service and making people money.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by ;
    ....Hitting a point where you're raking it in from your own account. Spending as you want, travelling the world and trading on wireless from hotspots, is the point at which you should be aiming for. That or expanding in a business outside of FX for steady residual income....
    There it is, in a nutshell, what we're all aiming for if we start out and push on when the going gets tough.

    Very recently I began to gradually transcend towards more consistent trading which began to show in my P/L. Now, looking forward, I am beginning to check out options open to me of making a living inside.
    The stark reality is that I am hopelessly undercapitalised and I would need extra funds to be able to make my skill work for me.

    I looked in a few prop houses here in London and I can affirm what Taksid says that the fewest deal with place FX and if they do then only as a little sidekick.
    Heard some of the men saying that FX is not trading it is gambling, you can't earn money in retail because of the spread etc. because they would deal only with instruments traded through exchanges.

    However, they would often promte their reduced trading cost each entrance, their 3D tape reading applications and that through their training they want you to create a lot of trades on a tick chart until you're blue in your face.

    When I then spoke and checked out what some of the guys where doing that where moving through that training I saw them using only a tick chart that showed them the last 30 minutes of price action of some bond futures instruments. Thats it no extra TFs or something, also they had not been trained in any basic method, no stoplosses, no position sizing zilch... that trainee man, who had been there in his next month, appeared oblivious to those notion however he rhapsodised about a pro there who would apparently have around 9 positons open in the same time.

    It seems all was targeted towards creating loads of entrances to maintain their bulk discount and if you've burnt your #2500 in losses then the dream is over and they'll say: Thank you for keeping our costs low.
    And if a fantastic trader comes from it even the greater, no harm in trying at zero cost for us.

    I left that place quietly bceause I dont believe they would be glad for me to create my 0-4 trades every day and aside form that they'd no clear comission arrangement and with how much liquidity they'll back me up.


    However, what could you recommend a somebody like me as another step?

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