Thread: What Holy Grail really means in Forex?(Need experienced traders comment)

Hi,

I know we keep saying that there is no such thing as sacred grail in trading. But what does holy grail really means?

Let us put money management and plogy aside first.

Let us say I am looking for a system that having 60%-65% precision after backtested if for about 300-500 trades or maybe 1000 trades, assuming 1:1 risk and reward ratio. The machine ought to be 100% mechanical principles or very little discreet involve. With these conditions for a system that I am looking, am I looking for holy grail?

Comment and guie from experienced traders are much valued.

Anyremote

Originally Posted by ;

Hi,

I know we keep saying there is no such thing as holy grail in trading. But what does holy grail really means?

Let us place money management and plogy apart first.

Let us say I'm looking for a platform that having 60%-65% precision after backtested if for around 300-500 trades or perhaps 1000 trades, assuming 1:1 risk and reward ratio. The system should be 100% mechanical rules or very little discreet involve. With these conditions to get a system that I'm looking, am I looking for holy grail?

Comment and advice from experienced...

This market is so intrie and has so many participants that (IMO) trying to start looking for a mechanical system which has proven to work is useless. Us retail traders that can't wrap our heads around this are at a massive disadvantage. There are large traders that know the way to trigger your system to exchange and WILL take advantage of your 'platform'. If you don't know why you are supplying the market with liquidity, then you are giving it to someone who does and who'll make the most of it.

You're browsing for a holy grail. We all were. Toss anything mechanical outside and exchange the market based on order flow (buy when others are abt to buy, sell when others are abt to market).

The term is relative but if you ask any newbie concerning it, tap would come the answer an automated system which will execute transactions on my behalf with 0% reduction. .

Holy Grail in forex is a big forex secret! Everybody searchs for it but nobody can find(

I had it but I put it and I can't find it.

Start your search by learning how to trade rather than how to try and accurately forecast the unreliably unpredictable.

#8595;

Here you really are.

Http://www.virginmedia.com/images/1i...holy-grail.jpg

My 'grail' was understanding how the market goes and using an idea where its likely to change direction.

Hi all,

Thank You for all the replies. All your answer are valued.

Originally Posted by ;

In short: I do not think you're on the lookout for a holy grail however, you will have to conform with less of what you describe at least for the start learning curve, '' So yes, it's possible but I think you won't have the ability to eliminate the discretion component of the decision making process.

I do aware that totally eliminate the discretion component is not actually possible. Otherwise, EA won't fail big time.

I won't consider myself as newbies but not quite profitable traders too. That is why I try to find a system that is less reliable on discretion since I do not really trust my expertise or instinct nonetheless.

Originally Posted by ;

throw anything mechanical out and trade the market based on order flow (buy when others are abt to buy, sell if others are abt to sell).

I did tried before. Easy to state but hard to do. How would I know the order flow? How would I know the flow is ending or will nonetheless continue? Just because last couple of information shows the trend is upward, how would I know it will last after I put my buy order? The answer I think would be - I wouldn't know. That's only one of the discretion component that however often I bang my head on the wall, I still could not figure it out.

Originally Posted by ;

Start your search by figuring out how to trade rather than how to attempt to accurately predict the unreliably unpredictable.

I may not seem like I do when I started this thread but believe me, I do want to learn how to trade. However, I need to start somewhere, right? That is why I'm finding a trusted system that I can play and learn from there.

Where did you started to learn how to trade? I mean, according to your expertise now, where could you define yourself previously since the stage that you think you correctly learning how to trade? The point where you know you were at the correct street. What did you do at the point that makes you think you learning how to trade correctly? You traded using purely intuition at the point and adjust from there? Or you traded strictly encourage resistance and adjust from there? Or what did you do?

Comment and advice from experience traders are much valued.

Originally Posted by ;

But I want to start somewhere, right? That is why I am finding a reliable system I can play and learn from there.

You're searching for something to wear until you've even been invited to the party.

Learn how to trade, learn the concept of 'trading', then you're able to play systems, egies, indiors, and methods. They're all 10'a'cent and the majority of them can be overall profitable, but first you've got to learn how to put them to great use. A fantastic trader can profit from a fair egy, a bad trader can lose their shirt despite a first class egy!

Originally Posted by ;

Or what exactly did you do?

As above, this was my turning point.

Originally Posted by ;

Hi,

...

I do aware that totally eliminate the discretion component is not really possible. Otherwise, EA won't fail big time.

I won't consider myself as newbies but not really profitable traders too. That's why I try to discover a system which is less reliable on discretion because I don't really trust my expertise or instinct nonetheless.

...

Agreed, I found my self in a very similar situation after a year or two of being trading... it gets fruing and you believe there is no way you can get on by my self, I purchased a number of courses and books from businesses and mentors in Canada, the US and London and I believed I was left with nothing...

What I didn't see is that none of these was wrong, they all taught me one lesson or 2 and knowledge inserted to expertise, I was not seeing that I needed that learning time (yes years) and practice copious levels of approaches, egies, methods varying from purely mechanical to purely discretional and little by little I started to see and listen what the market has been telling me.

I couldn't exchange the methods the way my mentors told me to do, not one of these, there's no way to pass the experience and discretion or feeling which makes a methodology succesful (at least that is what I ardently believe), you may still look for one you enjoy, you will discover tens or hundreds of such systems and add your expertise to it, mix it together with hundreds of screen time hours of practice and you will sooner or later get it correctly, I believe there is no other way, besides if you are here asking, you are already taking a step ahead.

Originally Posted by ;

Learn to trade, learn the concept of 'trading', then you're able to play systems, egies, indiors, and techniques. They're all 10'a'penny and most of them can be complete profitable, but first you have got to understand how to put them into great use. A good trader can profit from a mediocre egy, a lousy trader may lose their shirt even with a first class egy!

I don't really understand what does your concept of trading really means? What does the notion of trading roughly include? Is it fundamentally of why people sell or buy a currency? Is it I need to know news event (or speculation)? Is it I need to know supply demand of market? Isn't it roughly same like fundamental analysis? So I need to get great at fundamental analysis before I continue to trade? Please understand that I am not attempting to challenge you or your response. I am just trying to know better about your response.

I also know systems and methods are rather common and readily available especially in Currency Market factory but when you stated most of them can be complete profitable, I am unsure my low degree of expertise or understanding can agree with that. Even though it is true that I didn't attempt a lot of systems but all the systems that I attempted, their outcome end up with this providing I didn't change any of the principles:
- following 10-20 backtest trades, the outcome was fabulous (70-80% accuracy assuming 1:1 R:R)
- after about 50 backtest trades, if I am lucky, the outcome still great (55-65% accuracy)
- following around 100 backtest trades, the result wouldn't be really great (45-55% accuracy)
- following around 200-300 backtest trades, the result will be approximately just break-even (48-52% accuracy)

the majority of the backtest are done manually and it generally took around 1 - 2 months to finish those backtest. I have not even got into demo before I rejected their system. Did I found wrong methods or did I approached it wrongly?

Before you answer me, I think it is ideal for me to clarify just a little bit about myself so you roughly can understand what's my level of comprehension. I am around 1 year of trading experience. I had completely read babypips faculty. Although not 100% know it but 80-90% of it. I read some books about plogy, trading cash management. I also attended any course. I didn't blow off any account however and currently trading employing a stay micro account for the previous 6 months. Although that account has grown a little (around 10 percent) but I believe it was 80 percent chance - 20% skill, if not 100% chance.

Your reply will be appreciated.

Originally Posted by ;

I could not trade the methods how my teachers told me, not one of these, there's no way to maneuver the experience and feeling or discretion which makes a methodology succesful (at least that's what I firmly believe), you may still look for one you like, you'll find tens or hundreds of these systems and enhance your experience to it, mix it together with hundreds of display time hours of practice and you may sooner or later get it right, I feel there's not any other way, besides in the event that you're here asking, you're already taking a measure...

Exactly, especially the feeling or discretion component. I took the trade I didn't understand why they never took even though the principles are the same and they took the transaction I didn't understand why they took because it doesn't tally with their principles. That is why I am searching for lesser discretion involved system. But, I really do found some if not many mentors which are not really proficient. They are just great at marketing and repeating/explaining items that the specialist are telling. They have not even transaction successfully themselves. Sometimes, just sometimes, I felt I am better than those.

I have not look through the machine which you suggested yet but I already book mark it for future reference after I neglect the system I am currently testing with. Thanks for indiing your system to me.